Carl Paladino and Roger Stone By Warren Redlich

What’s the connection between Carl Paladino and Roger Stone? Paladino is running for Governor, and Stone is working for Kristin Davis, another candidate for Governor. Paladino claims he’s different from regular politicians. Really?

For the past two days I’ve been involved in an e-mail exchange with Roger Stone. The exchange makes it clear that Stone is in fact associated with the Paladino campaign. Highlights of the e-mails are below, and the full text of the entire exchange is below that. I include a couple of messages to and from Carl Paladino and/or his campaign manager.

Stone’s manipulative style runs the gamut from threats to promises and from braggadocio to cockiness. He may be the Lex Luthor of politics. Or maybe he used to be.

Brief background – Davis and I are both seeking the Libertarian nomination. The convention is this coming Saturday (4/24). Stone wanted to make some kind of deal. My campaign manager tried to set up a meeting on April 20th. I got conflicting signals as to whether Stone was coming, so I sent him an e-mail. He said he wasn’t and suggested we talk on the phone.

Below are the highlights of the e-mails.

Me, 4/20/2010, 10:31 am: Can we just talk at the LPNY convention? We can talk Friday evening or Saturday morning, before anything of substance happens at the convention. …

Stone, 4/20, 10:43 am: No- that is too late- unless we can reach some accomodation Kristin wont be attending the convention. … In that case we’d prefer to petition on our own party onto the balot- litigate over the word LIBERTARIAN- plenty of case-law. … I suggest a broader effort. …

In the above message, Stone starts off with two threats. First, she’s not coming to the convention unless we have a deal. Second, if there’s no deal they’ll sue us. Then he suggests we work together.

Stone, 4/20, 3:20 pm: If my previous e-mail offended you I apologize. I am perhaps too blunt. … We are prepared to underwrite all petitioning costs. The petiton firm we hired is also doing Paladino’s Tea Party petitions. …

Me, 4/20, 4:05 pm: … I don’t think the LPNY is willing to have Kristin in the Governor slot but I don’t speak for them – you’re wasting your time talking to me. …

Stone, 4/20, 4:20 pm: It doesn’t work that way. The party doesn’t speak with one voice. The idea that “they” make the decision is absurd. each person has a vote. Working together a majority could be derived. …

Me, 4/20, 4:32 pm: What do you have in mind? … I assume the only acceptable deal is with Kristin as the Governor candidate. That’s not a deal I would make. Unless you’re willing to consider another alternative, there’s no point in talking further.

Next is one of the more important e-mails showing the Paladino connection.

Stone, 4/20, 4:48 pm: … If you ran for AG I could get Paladino to let you ride on both his GOP … and Tea Party petitions- and thus get in the GOP primary for real and get a second line. I can have Paladino himself confirm this if you like. Donovan is not a certain candidate for AG. You could end up the nominee. …

me, 4/20, 4:59 pm: Paladino and I discussed the AG idea briefly. We also discussed the possibility of him at the top of the LPNY ticket. He didn’t seem interested …. My hunch … is that Paladino drops out of the race by the end of May. …

More display of the Paladino connection in the next one

Stone, 4/20, 5:09 pm: Dont agree on Paladino. His statewide TV begins monday. He will enter the GOP primary. The CP will nominate Lazio but he can be slated for a judgeship to create a vacancy. If Paladino wins the primary they can switch nominees. …

It was at this point that I reached out to Paladino, forwarding him Stone’s e-mails.

Me, 4/20, 6:01 pm: Carl,
When we met last week, I did not have the impression that Roger Stone was on your campaign team. … he is speaking to me as if he has some sway over you – “I could get Paladino to let you ride on ….”
It was my impression that you were campaigning as someone different from the usual politicians. If you’re working with Roger Stone, in the way he describes, then you don’t seem that different to me.

Next is the telling moment – The first response to the e-mail did not come from Paladino – it came from Stone. In other words, Paladino forwarded the message to Stone – they are working together.

Stone, 4/20, 9:05 pm: Warren- do you really think this is clever ?……..you’re out your league- and gentlemen don’t share personal correspondence. You sir, are no gentleman-

Me, 4/20, 10:08 pm: Not trying to be clever. You purported to speak for Carl. I met Carl and I’m checking to determine if you really do. A gentleman? You threatened me twice in one of your early messages. … Never claimed to be in your league.

Stone: 4/20, 11:21 pm: You make me question your ability to read. My first missive with you contained two cold stone facts that you took as threats. … I am highly confident Carl would see the wisdom in an alliance with you. … Beating Andrew Cuomo requires a multi-candidate race . A rock-rib Republican on the libertarian line is not good for Paladino. … Where you are wrong is in saying Carl will drop in May. You dont know Carl. He isnt a quiter. He will win the GOP primary over Lazio. The guy has giant balls and will not be stopped despite his current problems. He gets better as a candidate every day. Carl Paladino can win in my opinion. The stars have to line up. But they will.

Next is Paladino’s e-mail.

Paladino, 4/21, 10:37 am: roger stone is a longtime friend and associate of mike caputo, my campaign manager and a more recent friend of mine. … roger does not speak for me. nevertheless i do respect what he has to say. …

Early in the exchange I had forwarded Stone’s first e-mail (the two threats) to Eric Dondero, a libertarian Republican blogger who has been following the campaign. Dondero contacted Stone, and this followed:

Stone, 4/21, 5:03 pm: Dondero wont print your leaked correspondence
rookie move asshole
guess CP shoved it up your ass, too.
LOSER…………..

There was more. The full exchange is below:

Me, 4/20, 9:37 am: Mr. Stone,
I’m getting conflicting messages from intermediaries. Are we meeting today?
Warren

Stone, 4/20, 9:43 am: Dear Warren
No I had told both Eric and Lora that we are seeing Larry Flynt today to feel him out about running on Kristin’s ticket for the U.S. Senate. Flynt only in NYC today. I suggest a phone call to see if there’s a reason to meet.
Like to include Eric in the call.
Can u suggest a time good for you both ?
Roger Stone

Me, 10:31 am: Can we just talk at the LPNY convention? We can talk Friday evening or Saturday morning, before anything of substance happens at the convention.
My schedule this week is pretty crazy. Had a trial yesterday, going to court near Binghamton tomorrow, etc.
W

Stone, 10:43 am: Warren
No- that is too late- unless we can reach some accomodation Kristin wont be attending the convention. A convention where a candidate isnt given a list of eleigible voters and where a poll tax of $25 is paid to vote isnt very legitimate.
In that case we’d prefer to petition on our own party onto the balot- litigate over the word LIBERTARIAN- plenty of case-law.
Sure u can win the nomination on Saturday. How will you get 50,000 votes without money or publicity. I suggest a broader effort.
I too am busy. Let me know if you are available to talk by phone.
R

Stone, 3:12 pm: Warren
If my previous e-mail offended you I apologize. I am perhaps too blunt. I am only making the point that Kristin is determined to be on the November ballot either way and that a collaboration make some sense. You are a highly articulate candidate with a good grasp of the issues. From that point of view you probably are the stronger candidate.
In terms of the ability to command resources and win free media attention, based on a compelling narrative I think she is the stronger candidate. Your background and upstate residence would make u a good team.
We have spent $25,000 on a poll to help guide a successful drive for 250,000 votes- surpassing the IP and CP and WFP. I know how to get there. Kristin can raise the $1M it will take. We have just closed a deal with REASON on-Line to put a weekly campaign video up.
We are prepared to underwrite all petitioning costs. The petiton firm we hired is also doing Paladino’s Tea Party petitions.
I am sorry lunch would not work today. I haven’t called you directly because I had a good first conversation with Eric and I don’t talk to candidates behind their managers back .It isnt done in my business. I have asked Eric to set up a conference call so we might discuss this further.
Talking Friday night leaves no time for a joint statement, campaign materials, vote solicitation and recruitment of suitable ticket-mates and a PR effort to insure maximum coverage of the nominations. Even if we team up we have to go out and line up votes.
I look foward to speaking at your convenience.
Roger Stone

Me, 4:05 pm: I’m a trial lawyer. When people threaten to sue me I find it amusing.
My impression is that you want Kristin to have the LP nomination for Governor and you may want me on the slate, perhaps LG or AG.
I don’t think the LPNY is willing to have Kristin in the Governor slot but I don’t speak for them – you’re wasting your time talking to me. If you can get the LPNY to go along with Kristin as the Governor candidate, and you want me on the ticket, I’m willing to consider that.
I do think I’m the better candidate for Governor, and I’m not going to step aside. But if you persuade them, and you still want me on board, I’m open to it.
On the other hand, if Kristin wants to be on the slate with me as the Governor candidate and her as LG or Comptroller, I think they’re more likely to go along with that. But again, I don’t speak for the LPNY. You should talk to them.
My cell is [omitted] if you want to talk.
Warren

Stone, 4:24 pm: Warren
It doesn’t work that way. The party doesn’t speak with one voice. The idea that “they” make the decision is absurd. each person has a vote. Working together a majority could be derived. If you are un-interested in working for a desired result to nominate a strong ticket there is nothing to talk about.
My candidate has reservations about attending a convention where a list of eligible voters is withheld from candidates and a poll tax is charged to vote- yet the 1800 people registered at the BOE as libertarians as of 21-31-09 have no vote.
Be well. See you down the road.
Roger Stone

Me, 4:32: What do you have in mind?
From your answer, I assume the only acceptable deal is with Kristin as the Governor candidate. That’s not a deal I would make. Unless you’re willing to consider another alternative, there’s no point in talking further.
Warren

Stone, 4:48: Because of her tangential connection to spitzer no other race makes sense for her. She, unlike you, has a shelf life. The further from Spitzer downfall the less her ability to command coverage. No other race has any logic for her.
Were you to support her actively you could help win her the votes to be nominated. If you ran for AG I could get Paladino to let you ride on both his GOP ( you are a registered R) and Tea Party petitions- and thus get in the GOP primary for real and get a second line. I can have Paladino himself confirm this if you like.
Donovan is not a certain candidate for AG. You could end up the nominee.
In a 3 way race for Governor a woman candidate running on marijuana legalization gets 50,000+ votes and takes votes from Cuomo- not a Paladino. Prostitution would be de-emphasized in a fall campaign.
From my point of view you would help KD more as a candidate for LG making a nice balance M-F,downstate-upstate, non-lawyer, lawyer etc.
From your point of view a race for AG would be better for you if you would consider it.
R

Me, 4:59 pm: Paladino and I discussed the AG idea briefly. We also discussed the possibility of him at the top of the LPNY ticket. He didn’t seem interested then. It was over a week ago and there’s been no follow up. So he’s not interested.
Even if you and I made a deal like you suggest, there is no way to guarantee it would be honored down the road.
My hunch (and it’s only a hunch) is that Paladino drops out of the race by the end of May. He doesn’t think it’s winnable without the Conservative line, and he’s not going to get it.
By the way, you overestimate my influence with the LPNY.
W

Stone, 5:09 pm: Dont agree on Paladino. His statewide TV begins monday. He will enter the GOP primary. The CP will nominate Lazio but he can be slated for a judgeship to create a vacancy. If Paladino wins the primary they can switch nominees.
he has been a bit busy with his e-mails and all…………
Carl never had an interest in the LP nomination. Backing a candidate for AG is another issue. It costs the same to collect petitions for one candidate as two. Yes, you would have to rely on his word.
I never underestimate the power of active pursuasion by effective people in a sea of uncertainty.
[Larry] Flynt receptive to a Senate run if he can get clarified on state registration law- interesting potential for both campaign money and votes.

Me (to Paladino), 6:01 pm: Carl,
When we met last week, I did not have the impression that Roger Stone was on your campaign team. As you can see by the exchange below, he is speaking to me as if he has some sway over you – “I could get Paladino to let you ride on ….”
It was my impression that you were campaigning as someone different from the usual politicians. If you’re working with Roger Stone, in the way he describes, then you don’t seem that different to me.
I’m big on hunches. My hunch is that he does not speak for you. Some of the things he says here do not fit with things you said to me when we met.
Mainly, I thought you should know that Stone was throwing your name around like he has some control over you. You don’t strike me as someone who is so easily controlled.
My cell is [omitted] if you want to talk. I have a town board meeting tonight at 7:30 pm and it might go long, so tomorrow might be better.
I cc’d Jim, Rus, and Allen on this message because I’ve had some interaction with them over the course of the campaign and I thought they should know what’s going on.
Warren

Stone, 9:05 pm: Warren- do you really think this is clever ?……..you’re out your league- and gentlemen don’t share personal correspondence. You sir, are no gentleman-
R
Carl,
When we met last week, I did not have the impression that Roger Stone was on your campaign team. As you can see by the exchange …

Me, 10:08 pm: Not trying to be clever. You purported to speak for Carl. I met Carl and I’m checking to determine if you really do.
A gentleman? You threatened me twice in one of your early messages. We have different ideas of gentlemanly behavior.
Never claimed to be in your league. I’m a traffic lawyer and town board member. You play at much higher levels.
Warren

Stone, 11:21 pm:Warren
You make me question your ability to read.
My first missive with you contained two cold stone facts that you took as threats.
First that I would not put Ms Davis into an convention in which she is denied access to a list of voters eligible to vote and thus without a vote count. Without these she would simply not attend or compete. It would malpratice on my part to do so. Tough to win a victory over nobody.
Secondly that I felt she could petition her way on in a party with the word libertarian in the name based on case law and was happy to defend in litigation based on the Socialist workers v Socialist labor and Bloomberg” schools decisions. Since she will be running a Libertarian based campaign it only makes sense.
No threats. Just facts.
Polling would indicate that reform or other names test better.
No threat was stated or implied. She, like you ,is entitled to do what she likes.
She has a plan. Try a google news or blog search under Kristin Davis. Now try one under your name.
Russ Thompson is a good man and a key supporter of Carl but only Carl speaks for Carl.
Russ is doing a good job with Tea Party Folks. Ostrowski one of the best issue/idea/research guys I’ve seen.
But only Carl speaks for Carl.
Mike Caputo , Carl’s manager is a close freind and protege. But only Carl speaks for Carl.
I am highly confident Carl would see the wisdom in an alliance with you.
I am not at liberty to say more. My outlook is based on $80K worth of polling. Beating Andrew Cuomo requires a multi-candidate race . A rock-rib Republican on the libertarian line is not good for Paladino.
I still think a race for AG in the GOP primary is good for Carl, good for you , good for libertarians and good for a tea party line if one has to be formed. You could end up on three lines in a race with a WEAK liberal Eric Schneiderman.
My research on him is devastating.
We both know your current candidacy in the GOP primary is a bluff as the petitions will be an expensive pain in the ass. Doesnt have to be this way.
Jesus man ,wake up ! You could actually win this race.
Do you have a plan ? to get 50,000 votes? to win a GOP primary? to actually position yourself to win?
Where you are wrong is in saying Carl will drop in May. You dont know Carl. He isnt a quiter. He will win the GOP primary over Lazio. The guy has giant balls and will not be stopped despite his current problems. He gets better as a candidate every day.
Carl Paladino can win in my opinion. The stars have to line up. But they will.
I’ve copied the same folks you did so everyone can remain informed. Sure would be nice if no one used it to damage Carl’s campaign. The folks around Carl care about one thing..electing Carl and beating Prince Andrew.
Sundwall is a good man. You are lucky to have him. I think he sees the bigger picture.
Cordially
R

Note that Stone did not include everyone I had. One of the Buffalo Tea Party leaders was left out, and that may have been deliberate. But I forwarded to him.

Next is the first Paladino response:

Paladino, 4/21, 10:37 am: warren, roger stone is a longtime friend and associate of mike caputo, my campaign manager and a more recent friend of mine. he was one of the people who referred me to mike. i have and will continue to run my campaign with mike. i make all final calls. roger does not speak for me. nevertheless i do respect what he has to say. I really have no interest in the LP or the Independence party nominations. I told you that i promised mike long i would not seek any other line but his and the republican line. The bottom line is i intend to win the republican primary and have their line and the conservative line. It would be nice not to have to petition and get the endorsement alone and avoid a primary so time and resourses can be dedicated to taking Andrew down but it appears Cox has the party upside down right now.

Stone, 4/21, 5:03 pm: Dondero wont print your leaked correspondence
rookie move asshole
guess CP shoved it up your ass, too.
LOSER…………..

Me, 5:58 pm: We both know I’m a rookie. What I don’t get is why you’re wasting your time with me.
You are celebrating a tiny victory over a nobody.
If we played basketball, I’d clobber you. But it wouldn’t mean anything because I’m taller, younger and more experienced.
For some reason you’re trying to rub it in. I have no expectation of beating you. You’re supposed to be better at this.
W

Stone, 7:14 pm: The act of leaking a frank political discussion is not done in an atmosphere in which we both concluded we could not come to an ALLIANCE ( we even discussed taking another office and concluded it wouldn’t work)
I bore u no ill will at the time and said we’d see each other down the road in the campaign . it just didn’t work. It was not to be .
Frank talk is part of building a real campaign to win something. I think you could have enhanced your own position by wiring with us. I like Eric S as a straight – shooter no bullshit guy and like him.I could work with him.
I stated my case- we were both blunt – the was no room for agreement- alliance- collaboration.
Politics is about addition not isolations Make friends- seize opportunity build a network because – NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT TO RUN AGAIN….it’s a buliding process
To each go our separate ways – with no animus on our part–re-made my arguments in why collaboration was benenificial and said adios- no threats.
I was prepared to move on. Do our own thing. Best person win. no hard feelings.
That’s proper political discourse… but leaking it AFTER THE FACT is for what purpose- to get your only google alert in my lifetime– what is the point ? pique ? momentary spotlight?
You are a lawyer- better than Dennis Vacco- you are a logical AG and and could have run in the GOP primary.
Ms. Davis is not a lawyer. It wasn’t an insult.
I made my case . you declined but counter offered we declined. Not hard feelings ……then
dumping our e-mail trail to numerous reporters AFTERWARDS is- other than colorful- what? cute ? vindictive ?
That is douche-bag behavior. Gents don’t do this unless a war was declared- just as a lawyer would do to another lawyer. It’s bad form. Is’nt done. Bad manners
I declared no war on you.
That’s why………R

Me, 8:55 pm: Apparently leaking is okay when you do it to someone but not when it’s done to you.
Or there are some rules for it. But I never got the rulebook.
Your world is too complex for me.

Stone, 9:04 pm: context councilor, context…………..

Stone, 9:08 pm: calling Kristin a whore actionable…………no evidence whatsoever.
Voters rank whores above lawyers anyway-

Michael Caputo (Paladino campaign manager), 9:52 pm: Warren: I must be tired; I sent an early version of my email by mistake. See below. Thanks, MC
–
Warren:
I believe you have the wrong idea or perhaps Stone left the wrong impression. I do wish you had called to ask me about all this. I would have told you that Carl has already endorsed Dan Donovan for AG. Attached you’ll find the PALADINO-WILSON-DONOVAN button we produced three weeks ago. A TV report showing us circulating them in Staten Island can be viewed here: http://bit.ly/9NGYCI. And you’ll see our press release here: http://paladinoforthepeople.com/news2.php?id=5&t=1
I’d say these are all pretty clear indications Stone has no business horse trading for Carl. Say what you will, but to me it really sounds a lot more like he was in it for Kristin.
Call me anytime Warren. I wish you all the best.
Sincerely,
MC
–
***
Michael R. Caputo
Paladino for the People
[phone omitted]

Learn more about Warren Redlich’s candidacy for New York State governor at the wredlich.com/ny/ website.